Friday, October 21, 2011
Obama announces end of Iraq war, troops to return home by year end
President Obama announced Friday that the United States will withdraw nearly all troops from Iraq by the end of the year, effectively bringing the long and polarizing war in Iraq to an end.
"After nearly 9 years, America's war in Iraq will be over," said Mr. Obama.
He said the last American troops will depart the country by January 1 "with their heads held high, proud of their success, and knowing that the American people stand united in our support for our troops."
"The transition in Afghanistan is moving forward, and our troops are finally coming home," he added, saying in the White House briefing room that U.S. troops "will definitely be home for the holidays."
The war in Iraq has meant the death of more than 4,400 U.S. troops and come at a cost of more than $700 billion. Asked in a briefing following Mr. Obama's remarks if it was worth it, Antony Blinken, National Security Adviser to Vice President Joe Biden, said, "history is going to have to judge."
Iraq: By the numbers
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U.S. and Iraqi officials have spent months debating whether to honor a planned December 31 deadline for troop withdrawal, set in 2008, amid concerns that the full withdrawal of U.S. forces could put the country at risk. Many U.S. officials wanted to leave a few thousand military trainers in the country past the end of the year, but, as the Associated Press reported Sunday, "Iraqi leaders have adamantly refused to give U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, and the Americans have refused to stay without it."
America has already withdrawn nearly 100,000 troops from Iraq already as part of the current draw-down; nearly 40,000 "non-combat" troops remain. Mr. Obama said Friday that "Iraqis have taken full responsibility for their country's security" and said that the relationship between the United States and Iraq going forward will be one of equals.
"It will be a normal relationship between sovereign nations, an equal partnership based on mutual interest and mutual respect," he said.
Mr. Obama discussed the planned announcement earlier in the day with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki over secure video conference. He said al-Maliki "spoke of the determination of the Iraqi people to forge their own future," and that the two leaders are "in full agreement about how to move forward."
Mr. Obama said he had invited al-Maliki to the White House in December and vowed that the United States and Iraq will embark on a "strong and enduring partnership."
"As I told Prime Minister Maliki, we will continue discussions on how we might help Iraq train and equip its forces, again, just as we offer training and assistance to countries around the world," said the president. "After all, there will be some difficult days ahead for Iraq and the United States will continue to have an interest in an Iraq that is stable, secure and self-reliant.
Mr. Obama had vowed to end the war in Iraq as a presidential candidate. He spoke out passionately against the war in 2002, though later said the United States had an "absolute obligation" to stay in the country as long as it took to achieve success.
Mr. Obama said the United States will be "moving forward from a position of strength" and that the troop departure "will be a time to reflect on all that we've been through in this war."
"I'll join the American people in paying tribute to the more than 1 million Americans who have served in Iraq," he said. "We'll honor our many wounded warriors and the nearly 4,500 American patriots and their Iraqi and coalition partners who gave their lives to this effort."
Iraq pullout comes as most say war going well
Mr. Obama cast the end of the Iraq war in the larger context of a smaller U.S. military presence around the world. "The tide of war is receding," he said, pointing to the start of a troop withdrawal in Afghanistan.
"When I took office, roughly 180,000 troops were deployed in both these wars. And by the end of this year that number will be cut in half," he said. "And make no mistake, they will continue to go down."
Romney hammers Obama over Iraq pullout
GOP slams, Dem praise Obama over Iraq withdrawal
Marco Rubio hits back
Marco Rubio hits back
By Jennifer Rubin
The Post reported yesterday that the parents of Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) had not fled Cuba after Fidel Castro had risen to power but some years before. Nevertheless, the report found: “They showed that between the couple’s admission for permanent U.S. residence and Castro’s victory on Jan. 1, 1959, his father spent five days in Cuba and his mother spent no more than two months and three days there. The passports show that Rubio’s mother made at least four short trips to the island after Castro’s victory, including a month-long stay in February and March 1961.” It was during that trip that Rubio’s mother determined she couldn’t live under the Communist regime.
Rubio put out a statement slamming the report:
To suggest my family’s story is embellished for political gain is outrageous. The dates I have given regarding my family’s history have always been based on my parents’ recollections of events that occurred over 55 years ago and which were relayed to me by them more than two decades after they happened. I was not made aware of the exact dates until very recently.
What’s important is that the essential facts of my family’s story are completely accurate. My parents are from Cuba. After arriving in the United States, they had always hoped to one day return to Cuba if things improved and traveled there several times. In 1961, my mother and older siblings did in fact return to Cuba while my father stayed behind wrapping up the family’s matters in the U.S. After just a few weeks living there, she fully realized the true nature of the direction Castro was taking Cuba and returned to the United States one month later, never to return.
They were exiled from the home country they tried to return to because they did not want to live under communism. That is an undisputed fact and to suggest otherwise is outrageous.
Moreover, there is some question about whether Rubio ever specifically claimed his parents left the island after the Castro revolution. The Miami Herald, which has closely followed Rubio’s career, notes that in fact Rubio has previously stated that his parents left before Castro’s rise. The reporter observes:
But the top of the story suggests Rubio himself has given this “dramatic account”: that “he was the son of exiles, he told audiences, Cuban Americans forced off their beloved island after ‘a thug,’ Fidel Castro, took power.”
However, the story doesn’t cite one speech where Rubio actually said that.
To back up the lead, the Washington Post excerpts from a 2006 address in the Florida House where Rubio said, “In January of 1959 a thug named Fidel Castro took power in Cuba and countless Cubans were forced to flee. . . . Today your children and grandchildren are the secretary of commerce of the United States and multiple members of Congress . . . and soon, even speaker of the Florida House.”
The catch: If you listen to the speech, Rubio isn’t just talking about those who specifically fled Cuba after Castro took power. He doesn’t say that his parents fled Cuba. Instead, he was talking about “a community of exiles.” That is: He was talking about all the Cubans who live in Miami. . . .
Though the story said his parents left for economic reasons, it’s silent about the fact that the dictator before Castro, Batista, was so brutal that it made Castro look like a good alternative at first.
In sum, the Herald reporter says, “Rubio’s office has told both the Washington Post, the St. Petersburg Times and The Miami Herald that his parents came to the United States prior to Castro taking power. And he has said it more than once.” If Rubio was “embellishing,” he did an awfully poor job of it. The best evidence of inaccuracy is Rubio’s Senate biography (that says his parents left after Castro), which Rubio apparently never corrected.
Certain press accounts are absurdly unfair. Alex Burns from Politico proclaims, “Richard Blumenthal won a U.S. Senate election even after it was reported that he exaggerated his Vietnam War service. Joe Biden became vice president despite having once lifted a family history from the British Labor Party Leader Neil Kinnock and passed it off as his own.” If Burns has similar evidence concerning Rubio, he should cough it up.
If this is the best they have on Rubio, he’s in no peril whatsoever. To the contrary, Rubio, having gone through a mainstream press attack, will likely endear himself to an even greater degree to the conservative base. If there’s one thing that all conservatives can agree on, it is their loathing of mainstream media.
By Jennifer Rubin
The Post reported yesterday that the parents of Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) had not fled Cuba after Fidel Castro had risen to power but some years before. Nevertheless, the report found: “They showed that between the couple’s admission for permanent U.S. residence and Castro’s victory on Jan. 1, 1959, his father spent five days in Cuba and his mother spent no more than two months and three days there. The passports show that Rubio’s mother made at least four short trips to the island after Castro’s victory, including a month-long stay in February and March 1961.” It was during that trip that Rubio’s mother determined she couldn’t live under the Communist regime.
Rubio put out a statement slamming the report:
To suggest my family’s story is embellished for political gain is outrageous. The dates I have given regarding my family’s history have always been based on my parents’ recollections of events that occurred over 55 years ago and which were relayed to me by them more than two decades after they happened. I was not made aware of the exact dates until very recently.
What’s important is that the essential facts of my family’s story are completely accurate. My parents are from Cuba. After arriving in the United States, they had always hoped to one day return to Cuba if things improved and traveled there several times. In 1961, my mother and older siblings did in fact return to Cuba while my father stayed behind wrapping up the family’s matters in the U.S. After just a few weeks living there, she fully realized the true nature of the direction Castro was taking Cuba and returned to the United States one month later, never to return.
They were exiled from the home country they tried to return to because they did not want to live under communism. That is an undisputed fact and to suggest otherwise is outrageous.
Moreover, there is some question about whether Rubio ever specifically claimed his parents left the island after the Castro revolution. The Miami Herald, which has closely followed Rubio’s career, notes that in fact Rubio has previously stated that his parents left before Castro’s rise. The reporter observes:
But the top of the story suggests Rubio himself has given this “dramatic account”: that “he was the son of exiles, he told audiences, Cuban Americans forced off their beloved island after ‘a thug,’ Fidel Castro, took power.”
However, the story doesn’t cite one speech where Rubio actually said that.
To back up the lead, the Washington Post excerpts from a 2006 address in the Florida House where Rubio said, “In January of 1959 a thug named Fidel Castro took power in Cuba and countless Cubans were forced to flee. . . . Today your children and grandchildren are the secretary of commerce of the United States and multiple members of Congress . . . and soon, even speaker of the Florida House.”
The catch: If you listen to the speech, Rubio isn’t just talking about those who specifically fled Cuba after Castro took power. He doesn’t say that his parents fled Cuba. Instead, he was talking about “a community of exiles.” That is: He was talking about all the Cubans who live in Miami. . . .
Though the story said his parents left for economic reasons, it’s silent about the fact that the dictator before Castro, Batista, was so brutal that it made Castro look like a good alternative at first.
In sum, the Herald reporter says, “Rubio’s office has told both the Washington Post, the St. Petersburg Times and The Miami Herald that his parents came to the United States prior to Castro taking power. And he has said it more than once.” If Rubio was “embellishing,” he did an awfully poor job of it. The best evidence of inaccuracy is Rubio’s Senate biography (that says his parents left after Castro), which Rubio apparently never corrected.
Certain press accounts are absurdly unfair. Alex Burns from Politico proclaims, “Richard Blumenthal won a U.S. Senate election even after it was reported that he exaggerated his Vietnam War service. Joe Biden became vice president despite having once lifted a family history from the British Labor Party Leader Neil Kinnock and passed it off as his own.” If Burns has similar evidence concerning Rubio, he should cough it up.
If this is the best they have on Rubio, he’s in no peril whatsoever. To the contrary, Rubio, having gone through a mainstream press attack, will likely endear himself to an even greater degree to the conservative base. If there’s one thing that all conservatives can agree on, it is their loathing of mainstream media.
What to watch: 'Hocus Pocus'
Trending topic: 'Hocus Pocus'
"Hocus Pocus" is trending today because it is the perfect movie to watch with the family this weekend. Get everyone in the Halloween spirit with this Disney film that hit theaters in 1993, starring Bette Midler, Sarah Jessica Parker and Kathy Najimy.
What to watch: 'Failure to Launch' on TNT at 7 p.m. EDT/ 8 p.m. CDT
Starring Matthew McConaughey, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kathy Bates and Zooey Deschanel. A romantic comedy about parents who hire a fake girlfriend for their 35-year-old son who still lives in their house.
Video: 'The Three Musketeers' movie trailer
"Hocus Pocus" is trending today because it is the perfect movie to watch with the family this weekend. Get everyone in the Halloween spirit with this Disney film that hit theaters in 1993, starring Bette Midler, Sarah Jessica Parker and Kathy Najimy.
What to watch: 'Failure to Launch' on TNT at 7 p.m. EDT/ 8 p.m. CDT
Starring Matthew McConaughey, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kathy Bates and Zooey Deschanel. A romantic comedy about parents who hire a fake girlfriend for their 35-year-old son who still lives in their house.
Video: 'The Three Musketeers' movie trailer
Six-figure salaries, but homeless
WILLISTON, N.D. (CNNMoney) -- They're pulling in fat paychecks, but now they're also homeless.
In the town of Williston, N.D., America's newest oil boomtown, more than 6,000 job seekers have come from every corner of the country looking for work. Yet, oil companies and other developers haven't been able to build housing units fast enough.
In the past year, only about 2,000 new housing units have been built, leaving many workers out in the cold.
With dozens of job seekers arriving by the day and fewer and fewer spots for them live in, people are taking some desperate measures.
Newer arrivals who can't find vacant hotel rooms or apartments sleep in their cars or in sleeping bags on spare patches of grass along the highway. The luckier ones nab a spot in one of the dozens of dorm-like facilities, known as "man camps," that the oil companies have built to house their workers.
The living conditions are far from ideal, but to some of these workers the lure of doubling or tripling their salaries far outweighs the physical and mental toll it can take.
My street address is the Walmart parking lot
In July, Matt was transferred from a Walmart in Minnesota to Williston's only Walmart -- more than doubling his salary. After arriving in the town he bought an RV to live in and soon realized that the store's parking lot was going to be the closest thing to home he was going to have for some time.
Each day, he buys something from the 24-hour Supercenter so he has an excuse to stay there. At night, Matt (who asked that his last name not be used) and his neighbors break out their lawn chairs, a grill and some beers and tell stories into the wee hours about where they have come from and what they are doing -- or hope to do -- with the money they will make off of this black gold rush.
"Some people look at us like we're homeless," he said. "But anyone who needs to find us can find us -- we have a street address: it's 4001 2nd Ave., Walmart."
Double your salary in the middle of nowhere, North Dakota
LaRae and Scott Miles have been living with their two kids and three dogs in an RV parked in a Williston campground since moving from Washington more than a year ago.
"It's crazy to go from having a home and a yard to living in an 8-by-10 trailer with no yard," said their daughter Kimberly, a sophomore in high school whose belongings are in a suitcase stowed at the end of her bed. "It's going to be a great day when we find a house."
Before the move, the Miles' were struggling to make ends meet. Now, Scott is making $20 an hour as a truck driver -- double his previous salary.
"I'm happy we moved out here, but I'm not happy about how we live," said LaRae. "We're looking for something more permanent to rent, but this is about all we can do."
Life in the "man camps"
Even those who have a place to live find the conditions tough. Many of the major oil companies that are cashing in on the oil discovered in the Bakken formation have been renting entire floors of hotels, spare apartments or building housing facilities -- called "lodges" by some and "man camps" by others -- in order to house their workers.
Halliburton, one of the major drilling and hydraulic fracturing companies in the region, even went so far as to have the Olympic Village housing units that were used for the security guards from the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics relocated to the town for its workers.
Benjamin Lukes, 31, has been living in Halliburton's "man camp" for almost a year now.
Lukes is bringing in roughly $100,000 a year (including overtime pay), nearly triple the amount he made back in Minnesota when he was manufacturing plastics. But it means being far from his family and living in quarters that he likens to a "prison cell."
The facility is wall-to-wall white, with long empty hallways and flourescent lighting. Lukes' room is about 160 square feet, the walls are bare -- except for a drawing from his daughter -- and there's a metal-framed twin bed.
The $400 a month he pays for rent includes housekeeping and three complimentary meals a day, making it the best deal around, he said. But he will never call it home.
"[My wife and I] talked about trying to find something in the area where I could bring them, he said. One of the local hotels said they would have an apartment suite available in February for $6,700 a month. "[Y]ou can imagine that wasn't a real good option... there's just nowhere to put them."
Lukes hates that he missed the birth of his son this year, but knows he can't support his growing family without this job.
"Each work cycle as I drive away seeing my two-year-old daughter's face in the window, I wonder how much longer I can keep this up," he said. "In the meantime, though, I keep getting promotions, and raises, and bonuses. It's a mixed blessing."
Surprise six-figure salaries
Cindy Marchello, who is 54 and from Logan, Utah, works for a trucking company and is the only woman living in her man camp. She pays $600 a month and has to share a bathroom with a man.
"I miss my family," she said, sitting near the frames full of family photos she keeps on her bureau. "When I leave [after going home to visit], I have to leave in the middle of the night. I can't tell everyone goodbye. And I cry all the way back."
Efforts are being made to build more housing in Williston and other oil boomtowns. Some even see it as an investment opportunity.
Former New England Patriots football player Jarvis Green and his company, First Millenium Construction, are building a 500-person man camp in Watford City, less than 50 miles south of Williston. Green said he expects to make a 200% to 300% return on the multi-million dollar investment, and he said the lodge should be completed by the end of the year.
"Out there they don't have a recession -- you say that word out there and somebody would probably slap you," said Green. "It's the place to be."
In the town of Williston, N.D., America's newest oil boomtown, more than 6,000 job seekers have come from every corner of the country looking for work. Yet, oil companies and other developers haven't been able to build housing units fast enough.
In the past year, only about 2,000 new housing units have been built, leaving many workers out in the cold.
With dozens of job seekers arriving by the day and fewer and fewer spots for them live in, people are taking some desperate measures.
Newer arrivals who can't find vacant hotel rooms or apartments sleep in their cars or in sleeping bags on spare patches of grass along the highway. The luckier ones nab a spot in one of the dozens of dorm-like facilities, known as "man camps," that the oil companies have built to house their workers.
The living conditions are far from ideal, but to some of these workers the lure of doubling or tripling their salaries far outweighs the physical and mental toll it can take.
My street address is the Walmart parking lot
In July, Matt was transferred from a Walmart in Minnesota to Williston's only Walmart -- more than doubling his salary. After arriving in the town he bought an RV to live in and soon realized that the store's parking lot was going to be the closest thing to home he was going to have for some time.
Each day, he buys something from the 24-hour Supercenter so he has an excuse to stay there. At night, Matt (who asked that his last name not be used) and his neighbors break out their lawn chairs, a grill and some beers and tell stories into the wee hours about where they have come from and what they are doing -- or hope to do -- with the money they will make off of this black gold rush.
"Some people look at us like we're homeless," he said. "But anyone who needs to find us can find us -- we have a street address: it's 4001 2nd Ave., Walmart."
Double your salary in the middle of nowhere, North Dakota
LaRae and Scott Miles have been living with their two kids and three dogs in an RV parked in a Williston campground since moving from Washington more than a year ago.
"It's crazy to go from having a home and a yard to living in an 8-by-10 trailer with no yard," said their daughter Kimberly, a sophomore in high school whose belongings are in a suitcase stowed at the end of her bed. "It's going to be a great day when we find a house."
Before the move, the Miles' were struggling to make ends meet. Now, Scott is making $20 an hour as a truck driver -- double his previous salary.
"I'm happy we moved out here, but I'm not happy about how we live," said LaRae. "We're looking for something more permanent to rent, but this is about all we can do."
Life in the "man camps"
Even those who have a place to live find the conditions tough. Many of the major oil companies that are cashing in on the oil discovered in the Bakken formation have been renting entire floors of hotels, spare apartments or building housing facilities -- called "lodges" by some and "man camps" by others -- in order to house their workers.
Halliburton, one of the major drilling and hydraulic fracturing companies in the region, even went so far as to have the Olympic Village housing units that were used for the security guards from the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics relocated to the town for its workers.
Benjamin Lukes, 31, has been living in Halliburton's "man camp" for almost a year now.
Lukes is bringing in roughly $100,000 a year (including overtime pay), nearly triple the amount he made back in Minnesota when he was manufacturing plastics. But it means being far from his family and living in quarters that he likens to a "prison cell."
The facility is wall-to-wall white, with long empty hallways and flourescent lighting. Lukes' room is about 160 square feet, the walls are bare -- except for a drawing from his daughter -- and there's a metal-framed twin bed.
The $400 a month he pays for rent includes housekeeping and three complimentary meals a day, making it the best deal around, he said. But he will never call it home.
"[My wife and I] talked about trying to find something in the area where I could bring them, he said. One of the local hotels said they would have an apartment suite available in February for $6,700 a month. "[Y]ou can imagine that wasn't a real good option... there's just nowhere to put them."
Lukes hates that he missed the birth of his son this year, but knows he can't support his growing family without this job.
"Each work cycle as I drive away seeing my two-year-old daughter's face in the window, I wonder how much longer I can keep this up," he said. "In the meantime, though, I keep getting promotions, and raises, and bonuses. It's a mixed blessing."
Surprise six-figure salaries
Cindy Marchello, who is 54 and from Logan, Utah, works for a trucking company and is the only woman living in her man camp. She pays $600 a month and has to share a bathroom with a man.
"I miss my family," she said, sitting near the frames full of family photos she keeps on her bureau. "When I leave [after going home to visit], I have to leave in the middle of the night. I can't tell everyone goodbye. And I cry all the way back."
Efforts are being made to build more housing in Williston and other oil boomtowns. Some even see it as an investment opportunity.
Former New England Patriots football player Jarvis Green and his company, First Millenium Construction, are building a 500-person man camp in Watford City, less than 50 miles south of Williston. Green said he expects to make a 200% to 300% return on the multi-million dollar investment, and he said the lodge should be completed by the end of the year.
"Out there they don't have a recession -- you say that word out there and somebody would probably slap you," said Green. "It's the place to be."
Olin Kreutz not 'feeling it,' leaves Saints
Saints center Olin Kreutz has left the team because he has lost his passion for the game of football, leaving a hole in middle of New Orleans' offensive line.
NFC South blog
Yasinskas ESPN.com's Pat Yasinskas writes about all things NFC South in his division blog.
• Blog network: NFL Nation
"He loves the games," said his agent, Mark Bartelstein. "He has to love the game. He just hasn't been feeling it."
The Saints will place Kreutz on the left-team list and then eventually release him. By doing that, the team will be able to get out of the guaranteed portion of his contract. Kreutz has been battling a sprain of the medial collateral ligament in his left knee.
"He called me on Monday and Tuesday and said, 'I don't know if I can keep on doing this,' " Bartelstein said on "The Waddle and Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000 in Chicago. "Went in and talked to (coach) Sean Payton and (general manager) Mickey Loomis and expressed it to them. They tried to talk him out of it. They wanted him to stay and he actually thought he was going to give it another whirl and called yesterday and said, 'I just know, it's not in my heart. I'm not going to keep collecting a check if I know deep inside me I can't bring what I need to bring to play every week.' "
This has been a tumultuous year for the 34-year-old center, who played the first 13 seasons of his career with the Chicago Bears but could not come to terms on a contract this offseason. Kreutz, a six-time Pro Bowl performer, had said he was willing to take a pay cut to stay in Chicago, but negotiations became public and messy and Kreutz finally signed a one-year deal with the Saints.
"I think there's probably some correlation to [how things went down with the Bears]," Bartelstein said. "It hurt him a lot the way it went down with the Bears. He wanted to finish his career with the Bears, so I think there's a part of it. But how much, it's hard to say."
Bartelstein said that Kreutz will not retire immediately.
"We're not going to file anything right now," he said. "I just never think it makes sense to do that right away. He's going to step back and spend time with his family. My guess is I'm not sure he'll play again, but we'll see. The Saints made it clear that if he changed his mind, they'd love to have him come back. But knowing Olin and the way he handles himself, I don't think that's going to happen. But we'll see."
NFC South blog
Yasinskas ESPN.com's Pat Yasinskas writes about all things NFC South in his division blog.
• Blog network: NFL Nation
"He loves the games," said his agent, Mark Bartelstein. "He has to love the game. He just hasn't been feeling it."
The Saints will place Kreutz on the left-team list and then eventually release him. By doing that, the team will be able to get out of the guaranteed portion of his contract. Kreutz has been battling a sprain of the medial collateral ligament in his left knee.
"He called me on Monday and Tuesday and said, 'I don't know if I can keep on doing this,' " Bartelstein said on "The Waddle and Silvy Show" on ESPN 1000 in Chicago. "Went in and talked to (coach) Sean Payton and (general manager) Mickey Loomis and expressed it to them. They tried to talk him out of it. They wanted him to stay and he actually thought he was going to give it another whirl and called yesterday and said, 'I just know, it's not in my heart. I'm not going to keep collecting a check if I know deep inside me I can't bring what I need to bring to play every week.' "
This has been a tumultuous year for the 34-year-old center, who played the first 13 seasons of his career with the Chicago Bears but could not come to terms on a contract this offseason. Kreutz, a six-time Pro Bowl performer, had said he was willing to take a pay cut to stay in Chicago, but negotiations became public and messy and Kreutz finally signed a one-year deal with the Saints.
"I think there's probably some correlation to [how things went down with the Bears]," Bartelstein said. "It hurt him a lot the way it went down with the Bears. He wanted to finish his career with the Bears, so I think there's a part of it. But how much, it's hard to say."
Bartelstein said that Kreutz will not retire immediately.
"We're not going to file anything right now," he said. "I just never think it makes sense to do that right away. He's going to step back and spend time with his family. My guess is I'm not sure he'll play again, but we'll see. The Saints made it clear that if he changed his mind, they'd love to have him come back. But knowing Olin and the way he handles himself, I don't think that's going to happen. But we'll see."
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